Beliefs and women's signals of interest

[Doug]

As a rational person, I cannot deny that women may have made signals to me in the past that I didn’t see, or that I saw them but didn’t recognize them for what they were. I also take Leigh’s point that believing beliefs and living uniquely according to them is limiting. Quite apart from the fact that I can’t honestly see how any woman could be attracted to me (and so give me signals), I have no idea how to ‘recognize’ signals for what they are. If I could ‘see’ them, I’d still need to ‘believe’ – there’s that concept again – that what I’m seeing is what it is, and then act on it. Part of this comes from the reality that in this day and age, as a guy, I don’t wish to invite an accusation against me. In the absence of signals, I keep my feelings of interest to myself.

Topic

[Doug]

Thank you for sticking with me, Leigh.  I get the ‘what’ of your message, but am still at a complete loss regarding the ‘how’.  Among the good points you make, you say, “f you can make a woman experience what she wants to experience, then she will be attracted to you. If you can’t, then she won’t.” I have many female friends – a few of whom are among my closest friends in fact, but it’s all platonic.  I have no problem ‘attracting women as [very good] friends, but don’t know how to move to a sexual relationship.  As I said in a response to Jimmy, in order to attract a woman sexually, I need to be able to accept that I am / can be sexually attractive.  I just can’t seem to do that.  I’m certainly not saying the things you’ve said here / in your articles don’t apply to me – but that I don’t know how to apply them.  My women friends say I need to ‘act sexual’ – but I don’t know how – because I don’t know how to make myself see myself as a sexual person.  

[Jimmy]

Also, you said you want to FEEL sexually attractive.  You want to FEEL masculine.  It’s important to note that FEELING “sexually attractive” and people being attracted to you are two different things.  So is it that you want people to be attracted to you or you want to feel sexually attractive/masculine/confident/manly.  Or perhaps are you trying to feel wanted and are looking at women to fulfill that need in you.  There are layers here.  And the first step to discovering those layers is figure out what you want out of this venture.

I would suggest reading the article for now.  Maybe we’ll find out something new.  Best of luck.

[Doug]

Hi Jimmy – If I can make a woman feel sexually attracted to me, then she will be.  To do that – as I understand – I first need to accept myself as a sexual person that is able to attract women in the first place.  This is what I take from Leigh’s articles and other sources, and this is where my block is – it doesn’t have anything to do with anyone but me.  I’d like to feel wanted by a woman, yes – but I totally get that for that to happen, I need to sense that I can be someone who someone else could want in that way.  I take your point that feeling sexually attractive and being attractive to others are two separate things, but the second can’t happen without the first, right?  Correct me if I’m wrong.

[Jimmy]

It can, it’s just probably not as likely.  You can attract a woman and not feel attractive.  You can feel attractive and not attract a woman.  I’m not giving you steps.  I’m trying to clarify exactly what you want.  Out of all the things you’ve listed, which is the most important one? Feeling masculine? Attracting women?  Feeling wanted?  What is the core reason why you are here?  What do you want more than anything in the world? Maybe you could describe it as a specific experience.  Type to us what your perfect night would look like.  Down to what you’re wearing, are you with friends, what do you guys do, what does she look like, what does she say, what do you feel.  And so on and so forth.  This will give us an idea of what’s really going on.

[Doug]

Hi Jimmy – I think there are two underlying issues: (1) I honestly have no idea what would need to change for it to be possible a woman to be attracted to me – or if it is possible at all; and, (2) I want to escalate but feel uncomfortable/unsure.

[Doug]

In the article about how to be more masculine, the main point seems to be that one needs to be ‘certain’ about the various elements in one’s life.  I am ‘certain’ in most aspects and have had significant success – financially, professionally, etc., – but when it comes to women, I’m completely uncertain as to even if I can be attractive to them.  I don’t see signs from women – I’ve already admitted that they might be there – but if I don’t see them, I’m not about to act because – as I said – we live in a society where guys like me take a huge risk just saying hello to a woman.  Yes, my women friends say I should act more ‘sexual’, but they never tell me what that means *for me*.  They think that as a guy, I should somehow just know.  I don’t.

[Jimmy]

Try this.

http://vedanism.com/how-to-know-the-right-thing-to-do-in-every-moment/

Actually do the exercise.  Be very detailed about how women play into this.  Situations with women, conversations with women, taking her home (or not), how do YOU want your life with women to be. Don’t get logical or over analytical.  This will help us see what you’re not telling us.  Post it when you’re done and we’ll take a look at it.

[Doug]

Hi Jimmy – I’ve been looking at the exercise in the article you quoted and tbh, I’m completely stumped from the beginning.  Are there any other exercises that would “help [you] see what not telling [you]”?

[Alexander]

I can relate to this. Not so much the concern about being accused, though that may be real enough. I worry that women will be made uncomfortable. Look, to the extent that (if I do say so myself) I can manage a degree of charm, it is in a friendly way. Any attempt to come across as more flirtatious or “sexual” will probably just come across as creepy (though I think I may twice in my life have crossed the line from banter into outright flirtation, one of those times was when I was suffering insomnia and heartbreak – I was probably subconsciously trying to make her jealous, a bad motive for flirtation if I ever heard one; in any case, that sort of slightly manic energy, which I have also known to affect my ability to use humour, can mercifully not be readily summoned, as otherwise I would be more likely to slide into actual harassment). With my Asperger’s Syndrome my judgment of the difference between banter, flirtation and harassment is likely to be faulty, as objectively the behaviour and words do not necessarily differ significantly. So it is better to err on the side of caution. That way only one person (myself) need be disturbed.

[Alexander]

Jimmy wrote:

Also, you said you want to FEEL sexually attractive. You want to FEEL masculine. It’s important to note that FEELING “sexually attractive” and people being attracted to you are two different things. So is it that you want people to be attracted to you or you want to feel sexually attractive/masculine/confident/manly. Or perhaps are you trying to feel wanted and are looking at women to fulfill that need in you. There are layers here. And the first step to discovering those layers is figure out what you want out of this venture. I would suggest reading the article for now. Maybe we’ll find out something new. Best of luck.

I thought it was clear from his posts that the reason he wished to feel sexually attractive was because the confidence would make him more attractive to women based on the advice from his female friends. He already knows from them that some women consider him attractive as far as looks go, but do not consider him as a potential mate because he does not present “sexually” whatever that means. I realise it is rather arrogant for me to pontificate like this when I have only recently joined the thread.

Retrospectively, I myself may have missed signals, but back in year seven (probably too young to be in a requited romantic relationship anyway) I had trouble coping with that girl joking about me being the father of her child. Was that banter, some weird form of flirtation, or actual harassment? How should I know? Humans (myself included) are so illogical. Despite the bold words she usually seemed relatively shy and insecure. I remember meeting her in a public library some time later thinking she looked very elegant and more self-assured. She apparently re members by tendency to interrupt and correct teachers fondly.

There was also a girl who used to sing “Stop in the name of love” at me, but I am pretty sure that was just playful.

[Author]

Replies